To help readers of cangolf.com gain a better understanding of the rules, Senior Canadian Tour official Joe Almasi has joined the cangolf.com editorial team.
Joe knows every page of the Rule Book (please don’t try this at home) so let him answer your rules questions.
EDITOR’S NOTE: Joe will try to answer as many questions as he can but cangolf.com will focus on those that may benefit the largest number of readers.
Q. Inspired by the AT&T:
"I was playing in from the fairway and my shot hung up in the grass just beside the green on 14 and just above the trap. My playing partner, Steve hit his fairway shot and just about hit my ball. He bounced into the trap. What would the scoring have been if he had hit close enough to move my ball? If it went into the trap? Or on to the green?"
Mike from Sarnia
| Joe Rules: There would be absolutely no difference in scoring. If his ball hits your ball, his ball must be played as it lies, and yours must be replaced on the spot it was on before it was moved. His ball is what we call an "outside agency". If you know your ball had been moved, then you are obligated to replace it. If you were to play it from it's new position, YOU would incur the 2 stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole penalty in Match play. |
Q. My question is: can a player declare his ball lost at any time(even if it is visable)?
Robert Schultz
| Joe Rules: A player can never, never declare his ball lost. Even if you cannot find it, until the 5 minute search time is up, anyone can find a player's ball, and the player is obligated to see if it is his. A player may abandon the search, start walking back to the tee or toward his provisional, and if someone finds a ball that could be the player's, during the 5 minutes, he has to see if it is his. If he refuses to i.d. it I'd have no problem DQ-ing the player. A ball is DEEMED to be lost under the Rules if 1) It cannot be found or identified within 5 minutes of search by the player, his side, or their caddies. 2) The player has put another ball into play under the Rules, which renders the original ball lost, even without looking for it in the first place, and 3) The player has played a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point closer to the hole than that place. Only such actions can render a ball as "lost", never a declaration. The best example of this is the scenario where, in match play, a player hits a tee shot on a par 3 into the woods, and then his provisional ball he hits to 3 inches from the hole. If I were his opponent I'd be running into the woods to find his ball before he taps the other one in. If I get lucky, and find a ball, and it turns out to be his, then he has to proceed with that ball being the ball in play. If he taps in the provisional before I see a ball, he scores 4. If you have a Decisions book, read Rule 27, and all it's decisions. Very interesting. |
Q. Dear Pro Joe Almasi,
I refer to one of your answers, ie regarding a ball lying closed to the cart path, a right-handed player trying to use left-hand swing just to get free relief, then switch back to play with right-hand swing ,etc. I do agree with you, that if the player wanted to take a left-hand relief, he should or must proceed to play with a left-hand swing, and be honest about it, should not take advantage or abuse the rule, as golf is a gentleman’s game. However, I come across a decision on quite a similar issue in the Decisions on Rules Book D.24-2b/17. I would be glad to seek your comment and clarification. Thanks.
Joseph /E.Malaysia
| Joe Rules: As is the case in the Decision you refer to, the player has no choice except to try and advance the ball left handed, because the fence is preventing him from a normal stance to play right handed. Because he can reasonably advance the ball left handed, then he is entitled to relief. And he must take relief as a left handed player would. Once his ball is in play, he may now use whatever stance, club, line of play, left or right handed way, whichever way he can play that ball under the Rules. In other words, once he has received his relief for the given situation, and his ball is now in play, he is free from any encumbrances of that situation, just as if it never happened. Just because he took left handed relief, he does not have to play the ball left handed. He must only take relief left handed, and what that means is that at the very least his "nearest point of relief" will be different and the dropped ball may be in a slightly different spot when it comes to rest. Now, if he switches to play right handed, in some circumstances, he may be interfered with again, by some part of the same obstruction, and since this is a NEW situation, then he may proceed to take right handed relief. This is not taking advantage of the Rules, this is knowing the Rules and using your brains to have them HELP you. The Rules are there for everyone to play by them and to help players who get in trouble, so they won't get disqualified, if they proceed correctly. I have seen players hurt themselves and get DQ'd because they thought they were doing the "right" thing and taking what seemed to be the "least favourable" break afforded them. And I have also seen many wise, experienced players save their own butts time and again because they knew the Rules, and saw ways of escaping their predicament, because they knew the Rules were there to help. I've often wondered how, a great game and sport that this Golf is, that millions and millions have embraced and made such a big part of their lives, that very few ever really take the time to learn all they can about it, especially the Rules. They spend thousands and thousands of hours playing and practicing it, but they won't spend one hour learning about the Rules, UNTIL they get into trouble in a tournament. I guess that's what keeps Rules Officials employed. Have a great New Year. Joe. |
Q. I think I've got a bit of a tricky one! Recently playing at the 7th at Ledgeview in Abbotsford we had a weird one happen. FC had a 30 yard pitch shot that went halfway into the hole wedged against the pin but definitely not below the level of the hole - FC told RW to play while his ball was still against the pin but not yet officially holed - RW hit his bunker shot that flew directly into both the pin and FC's ball but knocking FC's ball away to about 5 feet from the hole and RW's ball caromed to about 30 feet away. We know RW plays from where his ball stopped but what happens to FC's ball? Thanks, Devo
| Joe Rules: Hello, Devo Getting ready for next year, or just horsing around a little? I like Ledgview. Nice course. Next time you're in town, give me a call. The answer to your question is very simple. Rule 18-5 clearly states that a ball at rest which has been moved by another ball shall be replaced. So, FC would now have to pick up his ball, clean it if he likes, and try to replace it in the exact same spot half in, half out of the hole, against the flagstick. If this can be accomplished, then he may continue in the same way as if the incident never happened. Which means, of course, to move the flagstick, and if the ball drops, then he has holed out with his last stroke. However, if FC can't find a way to put the ball back exactly in that fashion, in that position, then Rule 20-3d comes into effect and he would have to place the ball on the lip of the hole, where it would surely come to rest and then he would hole out with his NEXT stroke, costing him one. Highly unlikely, but that's what would happen under the Rules, and that would be the price FC would pay for allowing someone else to play before he finished his business with his own ball. The odds of this happening, are, of course astronomical, and allowing someone else to play is, of course, good etiquette. |
Q. If a player has an unplayable lie, and he has to drop the ball one club length, no closer to the hole, can he use any players club (including an extended putter) in his foursome?
Debt
| Joe Rules: First of all, if you're taking an unplayable lie, you would be entitled to 2 club-lengths for a drop, not just 1 club-length. And the words club-length can mean anywhere from putter to driver. The Rule used to be that you may use any club including one from another player. That, however, has been changed,slightly. A player may now borrow a club from another player, for the purposes of measuring drop areas, a club of only the length that the player himself has in his own bag. For example, if you DO NOT have an extra long putter in your bag, then you may NOT borrow the extra long putter from another player. However, if his driver is the same length as yours, then you may use his (or any other club, as long as you have one of the same length), perhaps to save time. This settles any possible unfairness, where players who were fortunate enough to be paired or grouped with a player with an extra long putter, while others were not. It stands to reason that players who pack such a club should be the only ones to use them in these instances. |
Q. Player A’s ball is in the fairway bunker, and player B’s ball is about three meters short of the bunker.
When player B hit his next shot, he dug up a big divot, about 3 x 6 inches, like Ian Woosom used to do, carried high and landed in the bunker, about 12 inches where player A’s ball lies. This was an actual case in the recent 2nd Sutera Harbour Golf Championships, Sabah, Malaysia, which I was following as a spectator, one who is a keener to observe the play of the rules, rather than watching and marveling at the good shots.
My question here is should that big chunk of divot landed on the ball and cover it completely, what is the ruling for player A to play his next shot? Can he claim for loose impediments? But sand and loose soil is loose impediments only on the green but not elsewhere; also that divot was artificially dug up.
Or claim for a moveable obstruction, which again is artificial. Or claim rule 22 for interfering, but this is not interfering by another ball. Or claim equity, in this case that player B should quickly recover that chunk of divot made by him and carefully replace it etc, or can he remove the divot from the bunker, without himself being penalised? Anywhere, in the first place, that divot shouldn’t be there. I am very keen to learn to know the correct ruling for this case study, as sometimes I am being called to be a referee.
Joseph
| Joe Rules: Well, Joseph, this happens frequently enough in various ways, believe it or not. And, if you have a Decisions Book, as anyone keen on the Rules would, then I would refer you to Decisions 13-2/8 and 13-4/18. For those who do not have this invaluable book, these deal with such situations. The first one deals with a pitch mark being created in front of a player's ball and the second one deals with exactly your scenario of a divot coming to rest near another player's ball in a bunker. The crux of the matter is this; which came first, the ball or the object of interference? Anywhere, even in a hazard, if a divot or a pitch mark (resulting from another player's play) came to interfere with a player's ball, and this interference was created AFTER his ball came to rest, then the player is entitled to relief. A common phrase used in these and other Decisions is this. "A PLAYER IS ENTITLED TO THE LINE OF PLAY THAT HIS STROKE GAVE HIM". In equity, it would also refer to the "LIE" of the ball. If the divot you described fell right on top of the ball in the bunker, and moved it and/or altered the lie of the ball, then Rule 20-3b would kick in and the player would be allowed to recreate as close as humanly possible the lie and line of play that his stroke gave him. Fair is fair, right? Good question. Thanks |
Q. My daughter finished tied for second in a high school tournament and according to retrogression the person leading up until the 18th hole gets the silver medal.
My daughter and the other girl she tied played together and there was a shotgun start where they started on the 16th hole and finished on the 15th hole. On the 18th hole(which was my daughter's 3rd hole) my daughter had 6 and the other girl had 7 so they gave the silver medal to the other girl.
However since their last hole was really the 15th hole and my daughter had a worse score on that hole then the other girl should not my daughter get the silver medal?
| Joe Rules: This question can only be answered by the committee which organized the event. Every tournament, in it's "Conditions of the Competition", should stipulate how ties would be broken. There are so many ways to break them, and retrogression is just one of them. In a shotgun start, every group would finish on a different hole. This makes "last holes played" irrelevant. What if the two girls who tied finished on, lets say the 4th and 12th holes. What then? Shotguns save a lot of time, especially where daylight is an issue. Everyone still plays the same course, same holes, just not necessarily in the same order. Again, it's up to the Committees to decide, and whatever they chose, is the way, period. |
Q. Our fifth hole is an island green. The front of the green is marked with yellow stakes and the back is marked with red stakes.
One of my fellow competitors hit his second shot in a bunker at the back of the green. He than blasted out a little too well and his ball went in to the hazard marked with the yellow stakes. There was quite a discussion as to where he could take a drop. Other than replaying the shoot from the bunker, what were his other options.
| Joe Rules: Well, the only option you have left (assuming that playing it as it lies is out of the question), is to take a drop on the fairway side of the hazard, keeping the point where the ball entered the water hazard by the shot from the bunker between the flag and where you drop. Unless this is practical, then the only option might be to replay, which means dropping in the bunker. This will surely mean a plugged lie. Not nice. One way to alleviate such a problem and prevent a player from proceeding incorrectly, and possibly suffering a serious breach of the yellow water hazard rule, would be to make the entire island a yellow hazard and putting a Ball Drop on the fairway side, about 80 to 100 yards from the green, (a nice full swing for almost everyone), and making it an additional option. |
Q. Is a players equipment, clubs and balls, subjected to any type of conformity checks during PGA tournament play? For example. You constantly hear of players having a driver custom make to there specs. So if a player had a specific driver made with spring effect but looked like a conforming club, could they get caught? Same thing with a balls getting juiced up but labelled as conforming. Thnx in advance.
adtex
| Joe Rules: This is a tough one to answer. The Rules Officials of the world do not go on "witch hunts", looking for ways to disqualify players. This is a game of honesty, integrity, and played by gentlemen. I dread the thought of security-like checks (much like at airports) at the front gates of golf courses, checking clubs and balls. The R&A, USGA, and RCGA publish a list of conforming balls and a list of non-conforming clubs. If the ball you are playing is on the list, that's good. If a particular club(s) you are using is on the list, that's not good. It is the responsibility of players to know whether or not their balls and equipment are conforming. However, should players forget to use only conforming equipment in a competition, they will usually call themselves on this mistake, and have themselves penalized,(DQ'd), again, because they are gentlemen. Players do not want or need reputations of "trying to get away with something". Those that have tried, have had these bad raps follow them all their careers. It's just not worth it. All players in a competition have the responsibility of protecting the field, and anything suspicious will usually come to light. They don't go looking for anything, but when officials have something reported to them, (usually by players and other credible sources), believe me, it will be looked into. The game of golf is squeaky clean, and I hope is stays that way, forever. |
Q. Near our course in Richmond BC, we have a lot of coyotes. Often they roam the course and leave they large droppings. What happens if your ball lands in their waste. Is it a free drop or do you have to play the ball where it lies. Can you take an unplayable.
Thanks
Dan
| Joe Rules: Animal droppings, or bird droppings, large or small, from such creatures like Canada Geese, or coyotes, are all loose impediments. That means that because they are natural and not artificial, you have to treat them the same as twigs, stones, fallen leaves, etc. You do NOT get a free drop. Through the green, you may move or try to move them (hopefully, they are firm), but if your ball moves, it will cost you a penalty stroke under rule 18-2, and then you must replace the ball. If you're ball is covered by the stuff, then this stuff now becomes part of the ball, and if you try to remove any of it, you will again be penalized under the same Rule for purposely touching your ball. Tough break. Furthermore, if your ball lands in a pile of it, then this whole pile becomes part of the ball, parallel to the decision about a ball being embedded in an orange. That orange is now part of the ball, just as the pile of do-do and your options are now to either play the ball or take an unplayable lie. Some Superintendents insist on having a good dog on their course, keeping large flocks from taking up residence. |
Q. A player may change balls between holes.
Can the player change to a ball with different playing characteristicts, or a different brand than was used on previous hole?
eg: use ball with high spin-rate for a par 3 hole then change again to low spin-rate for the next.
Mokey
| Joe Rules: In the Rules of Golf, the only restriction in changing balls is that it be done between the play of two holes, unless a Rule permits substitution during play of a hole, such as damaged ball, ball lost in water hazard, etc. (Rule 15-1). Unless the commonly referred to "One Ball Rule" is in place as a local rule, any ball may be used at the start of any hole, and if you are permitted to change a ball during play of a hole, you may now put any ball in play at that point, even a ball you find on the course, as long as it's on the list of conforming golf balls. |
Q. My ball is on the green with some mud on it. I wipe away the mud using the moisture on the green is this legal?
Anon
| Joe Rules: Marking your ball is not the issue here. Before you touch your ball on the green you should always mark it. Otherwise there is usually a penalty. The casual act of giving your ball a scrub or two on the green is allowed as long as that is all you do. If you continue to scrub you ball or give very long strokes for this cleaning, one might suspect you are doing something more than just getting a clump of mud off of your ball. At high levels of competition, while it may not be against the rules, players in general do not do it at all, simply to " avoid the appearance of impropriety ". No one wants to be thought of as someone trying to circumvent the rules. Clean it some other way to avoid any doubt about your intentions. |
Q. My ball ends up in agreenside bunker to the right of the hole location...I go into a bunker to the LEFT of the hole location and proceed to make a few swings hitting the sand each time. Is there a
penalty, and why if there is? Afterall, I didn't ground my club in the bunker where my ball was located. Thanks.
Chas(a Moe Norman 'groupie')
| Joe Rules: This is a simple one to answer, Chas. Whenever your ball is in a bunker, (or water hazard, for that matter ) you are NOT permitted to test the condition of the hazard, or a similar hazard. Since most if not all courses have the same sand in all of their bunkers it stands to reason that a player may learn a lot from practicing in a similar bunker for that reason. Even a high handicapper can get a feel from learning the sand's consistency. You can find this in the rule book under Rule 13-4(a). Two stroke penalty in stroke play. Loss of hole in match. |
Q. We were playing in early November when we encountered a huge branch that had been blown off of a willow tree the night before. The branch was the size of a tree itself. Since it was too big to move, what happens when a ball is obstructed by it. The branch is not attached to the tree, but lose. I know this would not happen in a pro tournament, but it did happen on Saturday.
Tim
| Joe Rules: A branch broken off of a tree and unattached is a loose impediment, whether it weighs 1 lb. or 1,000 lbs. Therefore, you may move it, if you can, or break off pieces of it if you can. If you can't, and assuming that this large branch is somewhere in play, and not in the deep woods, then it would only be fair to call it "material meant for removal" which means it is now ground under repair, and you may take relief accordingly. Unfortunately, your relief is only "stance and swing" and not line of sight, and this may not give you all the relief you need. Fortunately, the Rules allow you to do both. If, after you have taken your drop from ground under repair (which a smart player would do to avoid having his ball move in the loose impediment removal process), and you are intervened with by the large branch, you may now try to move it or, again, break parts of it off to get a better shot, but you must NOT DELAY PLAY. Take a couple of minutes at most and then play on. If you have a Decisions Book, some interesting reading on this subject. Read the definition of "abnormal ground condition", and "ground under repair" and decisions 23/7, 23-1/4, 25/7, 25/9, and 25-1b/17. Good question, Tim. |
Q. Joe:
I was recently playing in a golf tournament and on the fourth hole dogleg right I cut the corner and thought I would be perfect.
But there was a cart path that ran all the way down the right side, there was a lateral hazard that ran on the right side of the path and about 260 yards up there was a water hazard on the left side of the path two completely different hazards and the path split them both as it proceeded to go around the water hazard on the left anyway my ball came to rest on the cart path right in between both hazards.
The rules official at the time claimed the ball to be in the hazard because it was inside the crossing stakes. I lost the tournament because of this and was not happy because I do not agree with the ruling.
D Turner
| Joe Rules: There are many areas where water hazards are so close together and joined by a culvert(s), or a path or bridge of sorts that crosses the hazards, that it is quite common to encircle these hazards together, and make the obstruction(s) a part of the water hazard. I can think of more than a few courses which have cart paths running through hazards. It is up to the officials marking the course to determine the best course of action in regard to such areas and possibly saving a bevy of Rules nightmares by simplifying things, thereby speeding up play, and avoiding possible long rulings that may be hard to administer. If they decided to mark the hazard such that it included the path, then so be it. Once they did that, everyone in the competition has to play it the same. I must point out, that to make this one hazard, a line has to be put down to encircle them. If there is no line painted, then it is quite conceivable, without actually seeing it, that these may be 2 different hazards and might be kept that way. One hazard with a crossing over it does not qualify as 2 hazards. And you do NOT line up hazard stakes like you do O.B. stakes to determine if the ball is in or out of the hazard. Hazard stakes only identify the kind of hazard it is, (red or yellow), and lines determine the margins. They should be properly marked for competitions. That way, all arguments are solved easily. |
Q. Dear Joe,
On our home course there is a creek that runs the whole length of the course with many bridges crossing it. What is the proper procedure to follow when your ball comes to rest on one of the bridges?
Darrell
| Joe Rules: Greetings, Darrell The creek that runs through your course is probably a lateral water hazard, and parts of it may be a regular water hazard, or vice-versa. Either way, since the margins of water hazards extend vertically upwards and downwards, any part of any of these bridges within these vertical margins are IN the water hazard. If a player's ball is on any part of the bridge within the water hazard, there is no relief without penalty to the player, even though the bridge is an obstruction. Any parts of the bridge in question which are outside of the water hazard margins are treated the same as other immovable obstructions through the green. However, this doesn't mean you can't play the ball. If the player so chooses, all the rules regarding playing a ball from a hazard are in effect, except that he may ground his club on the bridge or any other obstruction in the hazard. Stones or other loose impediments may NOT be touched or moved purposely, even if they are ON the bridge. If the player wishes to take a drop under Rule 26, then once his ball is in play OUTSIDE the water hazard, then any interference from the bridge (for stance and swing only), will put the player in a free relief situation and a second drop for this under Rule 24-2b would be appropriate. There are a lot of bridges, on a lot of water hazards, on a lot of golf courses. Good question. |
Q. Dear Joe,
I overheard a couple of fellows discussing the following scenerio...your ball lay close to but not on cart path...you may act like you are left-handed...and therefore be standing on the cart-path...and intitled to relief... And you can take a legal drop and proceed to hit right-handed. This sounded like bending the rule a bit too far... Is this legal? Is it ruled the same for other obstacles like hazards, staked trees, etc.
Thanks for your help,
Dave Linley
| Joe Rules: Well Dave, there is a similar question asked, and it's on this site, and it is No.7 on the list of Joe Rules questions. I think you will find it interesting. The short answer is that you do not get this relief just because you want to play it left handed. It should almost be a necessity, or the situations calls for the best and most reasonable play to advance the ball no matter how little, to be a left handed play. Then, if that is the case, you must take left handed relief, and not just simply normal relief. You may not get what you thought you would. Read that segment. Thank you Joe |
Q. Dear Joe,
A friend of mine was playing a round at a local course that has a large amount of rock out croppings. He hit his tee shot and it hit one of those rock out croppings, when he found his ball it had been broken in half and he could only find half of the ball. He wants to know if he should substitute a new ball as you would for a damaged ball, or is it a stroke and distance penalty for lost ball because he only found half of the ball?
| Joe Rules: This one is very simple. Rule 5-3, "Ball Unfit for Play". The last paragraph before the penalty statement says that if a ball breaks into pieces as a result of a stroke, the stroke shall be cancelled and replayed from where it was last played, without penalty, the player proceeding under Rule 20-5 - the replay rule - and playing according to where it was played from (teeing ground, bunker, fairway, etc.). I have not seen a ball break with the new technology, so he must have used an antique, or those are some kind of rocks. |
Q. Dear Joe,
Player A&B are playing a tournament. On the Green player A asks B to move his ball marker which is in A's line. Player B moves his marker and forgets to move it back and then putts out and plays several holes before realizing that he had committed this breach of the rules. What is the penalty?
| Joe Rules: When a player moves his ball marker over one putter head length on the green, and does not replace it, and plays from the new position, he has "played from a wrong place," and is a violation under Rule 20-7b. The player is penalized under Rule 20-1 for not replacing his ball and playing it from the same spot that he lifted it from. That is 2 strokes in stroke play and loss of hole in match play. When this happens, the player must hole out and not correct his mistake. It is not a serious breach of the Rule, and the penalty is applied. So there is no problem if you realize this a few holes later. Another problem will arise if the player finds out or remembers his forgetfulness and tries to correct his mistake after he putts once, but before he holes out. If he does this, then the penalty is 4 strokes in stroke play, simply because he did it twice. After the first putt, the ball is in play in it's new position, and the player must continue from there. In both forms of play, once you've taken a putt from the wrong place, keep going, because it's too late. |
Q. Dear Joe,
In a recent round of golf, I was in Ground Under Repair. I took a drop outside the gur but one foot was still in the gur as the line wasn't staight. Do I have to be completely outside the gur before I hit my ball.? The ball was outside -- I wasn't.
Jim
| Joe Rules: Well, Jim, you certainly must take complete relief any time you take FREE relief as in your case. This is what they mean by the term "stance and swing". If you don't take full relief, then you will incur a penalty of 2 strokes in stroke play or loss of hole in match play. The rule is slightly different if you are in a bunker, though. Casual water and G.U.R. in a bunker are common, and again, if you can, you must take complete relief. However, if you cannot, then you must take maximum relief, and still drop the ball in the bunker. That means you may still be standing in the casual water or G.U.R. partly and this would be o.k. Or worse. You may have to go from 2 inches of water to 1 inch of water, That's o.k. Players often confuse your situation with that of a drop from a water hazard. When you take relief from a water hazard and the dropped ball rollsto, say, a foot from the hazard line, and the player has to stand IN the water hazard, well, that's too bad. The ball is in play. It's a penalty situation, and there is no re-drop. With free relief, you would re-drop, and after 2, you would place the ball, so you are not standing in the G.U.R. I hope this answers you question. |
Q. Dear Joe,
What would happen if a golfer hit his aproach shot in the grandstands and someone pocketed the ball. Is that considered a lost ball?
| Joe Rules: If a ball flew into some grandstands, at the very least, there would be plenty of witnesses to that fact. Once you have that "reasonable evidence," it wouldn't matter if you found the ball or not, nor would you have to apprehend the felon who stole the ball. You would be allowed free relief, either via a Ball Drop or the actual proper relief procedures for Temporary Immovables, usually at the player's option, using the point where the ball entered the obstruction as your spot where the ball lies. Unfortunately, balls are too often picked up by spectators. Last month at the TELUS Vancouver Open, Arden Knoll hit a 300 yard plus drive on the first hole, a wee bit off line, into the rough and close to an area where there was some pedestrian traffic. The ball was not found in 5 minutes, and I had to drive him back to the tee to play another ball, under penalty of stroke and distance. It came to light later that someone had picked up his ball, but it was too late. Had this evidence come within the 5 minutes, Rule 18-1 would have allowed him to play from that area without penalty. Please, Please, Please. If you're at a golf tournament, NEVER pick up a ball you think is a stray one. Players can hit it so far now, you cannot tell where it came from, and you may be costing someone dearly. |
Q. Joe,
I was playing with a couple mates earlier this week when we had a situation by the green where two balls were very near to each other, one probably obstructing the other. What is the ruling on this. Can the ball in front be marked? That's what the player in front did. His logic was that it was close to the green and he would have done this on the green. Also, he felt it was quite
likely that the player who was away would strike his ball with his ball.
-- Bob
| Joe Rules: Well Bob, I have good news and bad news. The good news is that, yes, the ball in front can be marked if it interferes with another player's play. The bad news is that only the player being interfered with can ask to have that ball marked. If the owner of the ball did it on his own without being asked, he will incur a penalty stroke under Rule 18-2 for purposely touching his ball. This is the same in stroke play or match play. This is the Rule of Golf but, on a Saturday morning playing with buddies, if I enforced this rule when there was obviously a need to lift a ball, I wouldn't have any buddies left. Let's keep this game fun. |
Q. Dear Joe,
I took a drop from a cart path. I took my stance, marked one club length and dropped the ball. As the drop area was uphill the ball rolled back toward the path. When I took my stance to play, my heels were touching the cart path, so I redropped the ball and it stayed within the drop area. Was this proper under the rules of golf?
Jim
| Joe Rules: Well Jim, you are absolutely correct in doing what you did. In cases like this, it is necessary to take FULL relief, and that means you must play without interference from whatever you are taking (free) relief from under Rule 24 (Obstructions) or 25 (Abnormal ground). In your case, if the ball rolls back toward the cartpath side of your nearest point of relief, because of the slope, then a re-drop is required under Rule 20-2c and if the same thing happens, then you place the ball after the 2nd drop, on the spot where it hit the 2nd time. If you play the ball with your feet on the cartpath, then you are under penalty for a breach of Rule 24-2. The most famous incident of this breach was by the late Payne Stewart (at the Buick Open, I think ), a few years back. He was so ecstatic with the lie that he got after his drop, that he totally forgot about the Rule's requirements, and he played his shot and had to take a 2 stroke penalty. The other thing I'd like to point out is that in other similar situations, if you don't have a slope or a slope that goes the other way, if you correctly drop the ball in you drop area, it does not have to stay in that small area. It may roll up to 2 club lengths from where it hits the course the spot) when you drop it, and as long as it doesn't roll into one of the 7 re-drop situations under 20-2c, that ball is "in play," even though it may be almost 7 feet (two driver lengths) away, if you use you driver to measure the drop area. Thanks for your question. |
Q. Hi Joe,
A greenside bunker is lined with railroad ties on the side facing the green. There is approximately 4 feet of fringe/fairway between the edge of the green and top of the railway ties. The railway ties protrude 6 inches above the ground creating a perfect spot for golf balls to come to a rest. It is impossible to get a club on the ball when its resting snug up against the ties.
Are we entitled to relief because the ties are man made and we are outside of the hazard or do we have to take a unplayable lie and the associated penalty stroke?
Thanks,
Bob Seely
| Joe Rules: Dear Bob, The answer to your railway tie problem depends on whether they are an "integral part of the course," or not. Under the normal Rules of Golf they are an immovable obstruction and, as long as your ball is not in a water hazard, you may take relief without penalty. In your case if your ball is "through the green," you must find your "nearest point of relief" that is through the green and proceed under the relief procedures under Rule 24-2b. However, if the ties are protruding 6 inches above ground level, effort should be made at the Committee level to have the Superintendent lower them at least to ground level (or build the ground up). This is far better than giving relief, because then you won't have players getting their hands on the ball so close to the green, and it sounds like it stops a lot of balls from going into the bunker, thereby interfering with play. It sounds like there could be improvements made. If, however, such construction is deemed to be an "integral part of the course," as it is by Local Rule on the Canadian Tour, PGA Tour, the European Tour, and probably all the other world tours, then the player is out of luck, and there is no relief, without penalty. Usually it's Rule 28 (the unplayable ball rule ). Even with our Local Rule, if we came across such a bunker, we would certainly find a remedy in a way that would avoid such problems, since it would seem grossly unfair to make a player take a penalty with his ball sitting on grass just a few feet from the green, because of interference by ties that are 6 inches too tall. Thank you for a very good question. |
Q. Dear Joe,
You hit your shot and it comes to rest on a gravel cart path with a stone half the size of the ball behind your ball. You then determine that it is not to your benefit to drop in the nearest point of relief, can you remove the stone from behind your ball without penalty?
| Joe Rules: A gravel covered path is artificially surfaced by definition. Unlike a paved path, each stone comprising the gravel surface is a loose impediment, provided it is NOT embedded. These loose stones may be removed, without penalty, provided the path does not run through a hazard, as some do. In those cases, the player may not move the stones, nor is he entitled to relief from, the part of the path that runs through the hazard. Read the definition of "loose impediments", Rule 23-1, and Note 1 under Rule 24-2b. |
Q. Dear Joe,
Player A is on the Green, and Player B is chipping onto the Green from 20 yards away. If player B's ball hits player A's ball, is their a penalty stroke applied to player A or player B? Should player B ask player A to mark the ball? When player B's ball hits player A's ball, are the two balls played as they lie, or are they replaced close to their previous mark?
Thanks
Pete
| Joe Rules: This scenario occurs quite frequently, Pete, and there are 3 questions that you ask. The answer to the first one is neither player is penalized, unless player A said that he wishes to mark his ball, because it might assist the play of player B, in which case B would have to wait. If he does not, B is penalized loss of hole in Match Play or is disqualified in Stroke Play. The latter is quite severe, and deservedly so. The answer to your second question would depend if player B was being hindered or helped by the ball on the green. He would certainly want the ball marked if it interfered, and would certainly say nothing if it would help him ( possibly as a target to aim for or a backstop behind the hole ), in which case the other player, or any other player in the group for that matter, could have that ball marked, if they chose. And the third part is that in either form of play, Match or Stroke, player B plays his ball as it lies, and player A must replace his ball where it was at rest before being struck. If you don't know the exact spot, then just estimate it fairly. A little reading on this subject : Rule 18-5, 19-5, 22, and 3-4 and if you have a "Decisions" book, read Decision 3-4/1 and all the decisions under Rule 22. I hope this explanation helps, and thanks for a very good question. |
Q. Dear Joe,
Player A hits his ball into a lateral water hazard. Player B acknowledges that this is what happened. Player A cannot find his ball in the hazard, but proceeds to drop as per the usual rules for a lateral hazard. Player C states that Player A's ball should be deemed lost and must use the stroke and distance penalty.
Who is correct, A or C?
Thanks
Brian
| Joe Rules: Well, Brian, the short answer to your question is that A is correct and he may proceed under the lateral water hazard rule for this reason; since player A has corroboration that his ball went into the lateral water hazard, there is no need to find it. He may proceed under the water hazard rule. Players will still search for the ball for 5 minutes in hopes of it being playable and thereby saving a stroke. The stroke and distance rule will rear its head when there is a question whether or not the ball really is in the water hazard. For example, if no one saw the ball flight or where it ended up, even if was heading for the hazard, and there is lots of areas around the water hazard where a ball could be lost, such as heavy rough, bushes, wooded areas, etc. then Rule 27-1 kicks in. In your scenario it sounds like 2 of you saw it, and player C thinks that since you couldn't find it then it is a lost ball. Not so. The rule says "reasonable evidence". This is why competitions need volunteers to be forecaddies and spotters, to avoid such arguments. I hope this helps. |
Q. Dear Joe,
My ball comes to rest next to a tree that makes it virtually impossible for a righty like me to hit it. As luck would have it, I am playing with a lefty. Can I borrow one of his clubs and hit the ball (assuming I don't whiff)? Is there a penalty for hitting left handed? I recall seeing Dave Barr flip his club around somehow to hit left-handed in a PGA event. What's the rule?
Dave, White Rock, B.C.
| Joe Rules: Good question, Dave. The short answers are NO, and YES. You may Not borrow a club to play a stroke from any player playing on the course, during your round, even if you have less than 14 clubs in your bag, even if that person is not in your tournament, or involved in your match, (Rule 4 - 4a). And YES, you may hit the ball anyway you like. You may hit it left-handed, back handed, inverted, flip the club upside down, as long as you hit it with the club HEAD. Vijay Singh made a fantastic eagle at The Player's Championship when he putted from the fringe with the toe end of his putter. That allowed his putter to slide through the rough right behind his ball. It's not something you want to do without practice. If anyone is interested it is Rule 14 -1 in the Rule Book. It says "the ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club". It makes no restrictions on where on the head to strike the ball. |
Q. Dear Joe:
My ball rolls against a railroad tie that defines the edge of the water hazard and the tie itself is inside the water hazard. Do I get relief from the tie? Also, what if there is a red line drawn on the ground and the ball is between the red line and the tie.
Jamie Stahl
Goose Hummock Golf Resort
| Joe Rules: Good question Jamie. There are a lot of golf courses with railway ties and their status is unclear to a lot of players. Generally, any construction of water hazards are part of the water hazards and are usually deemed as "Integral Parts of the Course". This resolves any doubt as to how to proceed. This can usually be found on the Club's scorecard, in the Local Rules section. In your case, if your ball touches any part of the water hazard, then you are IN the hazard (see the Definitions section of the Rule book), and there is NO relief from an immovable obstruction without penalty, even if the railway ties are NOT an integral part of the course. (Note 1, Rule 24-2b). Tough luck. If the water hazard is defined with a line (red or yellow), then it makes it easier to determine if your ball is in or not in the water hazard. If your ball is outside of the water hazard, and the railway ties are NOT an "Integral part of the Course," then the only relief you will get is the standard "stance and swing". We don't want anyone falling into ponds. |
Q. Dear Joe
As spring arrives and sunrise is early enough, I like to play 9 holes before work twice a week. I play the front nine on Wednesday and the back nine on Friday. I then consider my aggregate score to be a complete round for handicap purposes. My rationale is that "play had been suspended due to work". Is this acceptable or am I recording an illegitimate score for my handicap calculation?
Dan Simard
| Joe Rules: Actually, Joe did not rule on this one as handicaps are not covered in the Rules of Golf. Adam LeBrun, handicap coordinator at the Royal Canadian Golf Association responds: Dear Dan: Under Section 5-2c of the RCGA Handicap System Manual, your procedure has been completed correctly. Section 5-2c states: Posting Consecutive Nine Hole Scores To be consecutive, two nine hole rounds must be played without an intervening 18 hole round. Consecutive nine hole scores include playing nine holes on a golf course on the same or different days; playing the same nine holes twice; and playing nine hole rounds on different golf courses. To summarize, no matter what the reason for not completing an eighteen hole round, you can post consecutive nine hole rounds to be combined as one eighteen hole round. Additionally, a round of seven complete holes shall be posted as a nine hole round, and any round consisting of thirteen complete holes shall be posted as an eighteen hole round. If you or any cangolf.com reader has questions or concerns pertaining to this or other Handicapping matters please refer to the RCGA Handicap System Manual or feel free to contact me again. Adam LeBrun Royal Canadian Golf Association Handicap Coordinator lebrun@rcga.org |
Q. Dear Joe
Could you explain the rule regarding a ball coming to rest near a fence that is used on the golf course to protect players on one hole from players on a different hole.
Jeff,
London
| Joe Rules: Jeff, The answer to your question is that there is no special rule to protective screens and fences. Under the Rules of Golf, they are just immovable obstructions and the only relief one can get from them ( other than normal stance and swing relief ) lies in the hands of the Committee. If a Tournament or Club Committee wishes, they may deem these kinds of obstructions to be "Temporary Immovable Obstructions" which is the same designation given to such things as bleachers, grandstands, TV towers, corporate tents, sponsor signs, etc. at major events. Relief can then be given in a couple of ways. The easiest way is to provide a Ball Drop close to the fence and write up a Local Rule giving relief from either interference (stance and swing), or intervention, which is "line of sight" to the hole. Another way is the more complicated way, using line of sight, plus one club length, less than two, along the equal distance arc, etc. etc. and really requires some time and knowledge about T.I.O.s and the player may not be getting a break at all in a lot of cases. The Ball Drop is best. |
Q. Dear Joe,
When you mark a ball on the green then place it before putting - and before you "ground" your putter - a huge wind starts the ball rolling and it trickles in the hole (the ball was two feet from the hole). What's the rule? Replace the ball with no penalty? Or does it count? Are there any penalty strokes?
Claude Dupuis
Ottawa
| Joe Rules: Well Claude, if the wind blew your ball into the hole, count your lucky stars. You have holed out with your last stroke. Neither wind nor water is an "outside agency" and the ball has moved on it's own. Once you have replaced the ball on the spot from which it was lifted, it is in play, whether or not your coin has been lifted. As long as you have not addressed the ball or grounded your putter behind the ball, then in this circumstance, it counts, and there is no penalty, and you do not replace the ball. If you thought you were going to have a two-footer for par after you marked and lifted it, then you just made birdie. I've been waiting for this to happen, but it's only happened the other way around. In a Canadian Tour event at Crowbush Cove in 1995, after wiping out Friday's play because of 110 k winds and rain, we resumed play on Saturday with winds around 65 to 70 k per hour. Within 20 minutes, I was called to the 15th hole, where Canadian David Bolton had this problem. He had a four-foot putt for par, and within seconds of replacing his ball on the green, he had an 8 footer for par. Obviously, he was not happy, and wanted to replace his ball. No. Had he of replaced his ball and putted he would have incurred a penalty of 2 strokes. He had the good sense to call for a Rules Official and make sure he wasn't going to make any mistakes. He just stepped up to it and made it anyway. It works the same both ways, good and bad. |
Q. Dear Joe:
During our club championship I see many relief infractrions take place. A popular one is taking relief from a cart path. Some players will take relief 20 yards away from where the ball lies on the path because the nearest point of relief may lie within some bushes that border the path. Is it not correct that the nearest point of releif is the nearest point of relief and does not have to be an open or clear area? If relief is taken, is the player not requried to drop in the trees if that location is the nearest point of relief from the path?
Richard McGrath
| Joe Rules: Richard, You are absolutely correct. Your nearest point of relief is your nearest point of relief, in this case, from the cart path, even if it means dropping in bushes, hedges, weeds, etc. This is one reason why a player should not pick his ball up until he is sure that he wants to proceed and his drop is going to be of some benefit. If there is none, then what you have on the path may be a better play than your drop. In finding nearest point of relief from a path, it may be very difficult or impossible to take the stance position in such cases where there is a hedge, bush or a 4 foot diameter tree. In such cases you should estimate where the player's club would touch the ground if the tree or bush wasn't there and then estimate where his club length would reach and proceed from there. He may have to drop in the hedge or bush, which are, by the way, part of the golf course. In dropping the ball, it may hit branches and leaves before hitting the ground, and unless it rolls to a position covered under Rule 20-2c, that ball is in play. It may even come to rest off the ground in the branches of the bush or hedge and the ball is still in play.This, of course would be a foolish move. If the player has picked up his ball and then changes his mind because he doesn't like his drop area, he may put the ball back where it lay on the path, but this will cost him one (1) penalty stroke for picking up his ball in play and not finishing the procedure he started. He is penalized under Rule 18-2a. You're right, and I see players on Tour pick up their ball and instinctively go to the nearest spot where they can stand, totally ignoring the huge trunk of the oak tree where they would have to drop. If players don't proceed correctly, and play from a wrong place, they are penalized two (2) strokes for breaching Rule 24-2 (the immovable obstruction rule). Unfortunately, some players think relief should be the best possible relief, not the nearest. I hope this can help you straighten out the misconception at your club. |
Q. Is it legal to ask a player who is on the green to mark his ball and leave it as it lies when you are coming on to the green. The player coming on to the green is using your ball as a possible back stop.
| Joe Rules: No, it is not proper to make such a request. The owner of the ball doesn't have to leave it there, and for that matter, any other player in the group may also have that ball marked and lifted, if they think it will assist another, and the player who is trying to take advantage must now wait until it is marked and lifted before he or she plays. If the player ignores this request and plays anyway, I would have no problem disqualifying that player. If two players agree to help each other during the round in such a manner, then both players involved should be disqualified. This, of course, being stroke play. In match play, it's different. If a player obliges his opponent and leaves his ball there, and this does help the player coming on to the green, then he will pay the price for not knowing the Rules, and he will probably lose that hole in his match. You can read more on this subject by referring to Rule 3-4 and Rule 22 in the "Rules of Golf" and the "Decisions on the Rules of Golf". |
Q. Dear Joe,
When I'm teeing off and my ball lands in "ground under repair", and the drop area is submerged in water, do I have a 1 club length drop behind the water (before the ground under repair), do I have a lateral drop away from the water (no greater than 1 club length), or can I re-tee my shot? Assume the water around the ground under repair is at least 20 yards deep.
| Joe Rules: If a player wishes to take relief from "ground under repair", he must do so regardless of another condition, such as casual water being in the vicinity. If the "nearest point of relief" is in the casual water, the player must drop there if he wishes to proceed. Once the ball is dropped and is in play, the player may now take relief from the casual water, if he chooses. This may, in most circumstances bring additional relief in the form of distance from the original problem, the G.U.R., and if you are fortunate, give a better lie, a better angle or some other benefit. However, sometimes the nearest point of relief from the casual water is back in the G.U.R. If this is the case, the player may drop the ball back in the G.U.R. if he chooses. This may be advantageous if the drop were in a different part of the G.U.R. affording a better lie or line of play or some other benefit. Since the two conditions are separate, this would be allowed. If this is not advantageous, instead of going back and forth from one condition to the other, because the nearest point of relief from each brings you right back where you started from, then the proper procedure would be this: take relief from the G.U.R. in the casual water (one club length from nearest point of relief - Rule 25-1b) and then take relief from the casual water back in the G.U.R. (same Rule). If again the nearest point of relief from this position would be back in the casual water, then from this new position of the ball in the G.U.R. find a nearest point of relief which gets you out of both conditions. By the way, this point cannot be in a hazard nor on a putting green. The ball may then be dropped within one club length of this point so as to satisfy Rule 25-1 (the Abnormal Ground Condition Rule). The ball would be in play unless a re-drop is required under Rule 20-2c. As far as re-teeing, why would you? If you did so, that would not be proper relief, and you would be penalizing yourself stroke and distance, and lying 3. For those familiar with the book "Decisions on the Rules of Golf", there is a parallel scenario under Rule 1. It is Decision 1-4/8 on page 24. This book is a must for those keen on knowing more of the Rules of the Game. |
Q. Dear Joe, I got into a friendly argument with my friends last summer at the 19th hole. We were discussing a drop from a cart path that rolled a feet from the drop point. I picked up the ball and dropped it again. Was this the correct procedure?
Mark, Barrie, Ont.
| Joe Rules: Dear Mark, Your question was a good one because many players mistakenly violate the Rules when making a drop. When a player is required to take a drop, whether it be for a ball in a lateral water hazard, an unplayable lie, or something simpler like relief from a cart path or some other immovable obstruction, the first thing the player needs to do is define the area he is to drop the ball in. Let's use the cart path scenario. When the player has found his "nearest point of relief", and has measured his club-length no closer to the hole, he now knows where the ball has to strike the course. Most players commonly believe that when the ball is dropped, it must stay in that drop zone. As happens frequently, the ball will roll a few feet outside of the drop zone, and many players instinctively pick up the ball, drop it again, and possibly pick it up after the second drop and then place it. WRONG. When a ball is dropped in these circumstances, the ball may roll up to 2 club lengths from where it hits the ground, and it will be "IN PLAY" unless it rolls into a re-drop situation covered under Rule 20-2c. (There are 7 of them, I will not list them. Please look them up). Unless this happens, the player is under penalty of one (1) stroke for picking up his ball, and if he doesn't replace it, and plays it from another spot, he will incur a total of two (2) penalty strokes under Rule 18. |